Stone Turning

[Ex19k]

Ok Rookie type question.
Found a beutiful pc of rose quartz the other day. After using it as a paper weight to hold down some cigar pen instructions I had a moment of clarity. Is it possible to turn pens using stone such as quartz instead of wood?If so what is needed to do this? Just curious because my parents yard tends to "grow" quartz. And some of it is just begging to be turned into a pen!

lytle


as the birds would say...To everything turn,turn,turn!

[Oso]

I know you can turn Alabaster, but it has a hardness of 2 (1 being talc & 10 being diamond). Quartz has a MOH's rating of 7. To shape quartz, you generally have to use something harder than itself, i.e. Corundum (ruby, saphire) or diamond. This is also shaped at low speeds on a lap.

I would think that if you mounted it to the lathe and attempted to put tooling to it, it would shatter.

I have drilled some of these, and its not a fun experience for the unexperienced. I used diamond bits on quartz (Amethyst), completely under water, and still ruined two diamond bits.

I think if you had a way of rounding the quartz and then drilling the center, you would have a very nice pen afterwards. Please keep us up to speed, I have a nice stash of Rose Quartz, and Amethyst I was planning on throwing n the tumbler.


Oso

[alice2072]

Yes it is possible, but you require a whole different set of tools. You cannot turn harder stones using your wood turning chisels.

You need diamond bits to drill the hole lengthwise. This may take several hours (if not days to do).
You also need to work wet when working with stone. So you'd need to get a wet grinder with a silicone carbide grinding wheel, to shape them out by hand (you can do this with a dremel too, but make sure that grinding wheel and stone stay wet!).

and then use silicone carbide sand paper (on a lathe and mandrel if you wish, but make sure the area you are sanding is wet!) to do the usual finishing touches, using different grits to smooth everything out. and then finally prepolish with a leather strip using Tripoli or 1000 Aluminum Oxide grit (it comes in powder, so you may want to wet it down so it's a thick pulp mixture). Afterwards, you're ready for polish (applied the same way as prepolish). There are many polishes available out there. Aluminum oxide, titanium Dioxide, Tin oxide, Cerium Oxide, just to name a few.

Also, you mentioned that you wanted to turn a piece of rose quartz. Now assuming your rock is flawless with no fractures, The thinner it'll get, the more transparent it'll become, and the "pink" will disapear. If you do end up making this pen using rose quartz, you'll probably end up with a pen that looks as though you encased brass tubes with glass. Maybe a different type of stone would be best.

Hope this helps.
Alice

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Alice

You seem to be very versed on this technique. Do you do this type turning?? If so can you post some pictures. Seems like an awful lot of work to do this. By the way welcome to the site. I do not remember you being here before.

[Oso]

What is the purpose of the brass tubes? I was thinking that maybe they could be omitted and the pen may look cool being able to see the mechanics inside.

But I see the point about how thin it would be. I guess you could use clear acrylic or a tinted acrylic and get the same effect.

Days to drill a hole :eek: ! Be an awful expensive pen afterwards :cool: .



Oso

[alice2072]

Oso,
In theory yes, you can omit the brass tube, but the pen tubes give some strength to the pen "body". Without the tube, you will end up with a very fragile pen.
Lets say you just finished turning your slimline pen blanks, using your most favorite type of wood without the brass tube. And you're all ready to assemble your pen. You get all the pen parts out, and the first thing you decide to put in is the pen tip. The second you push that tip in, chances are that your wood will split on you. it's far too thin to be able to withstand the pressure. But on the other hand, if you made the holes just big enough for all the parts to be able to just slide in, you could glue the pieces in. But what will happen if you drop your pen accidentally and someone steps on it? What will happen if a child comes along and starts biting your pen? Your pen will be finished!

Rocks may seem hard, but they're very fragile. Often times they fracture, and sometimes they chip. Just think of it as glass. The thinner it is, the more fragile it gets. Just imagine what would happen if you dropped your rose quartz pen on a tiled floor, if you didn't insert the brass tube. It would just shatter, and you'd be left with a broken heart. If you dropped that very same pen with brass tubes, the worse that would happen is that the rock would fracture (Tiny hair line fractures) and give the pen some character. The glue that's holding the 2 pieces together, is what's keeping your pen from shattering into a million pieces.

Pretty long winded, but I hope it makes sense :)
Alice

[alice2072]

Thanks for the welcome John

I have never made a pen out of rocks before (just not worth the effort), but I do polish rocks as a second hobby (woodworking being my 1st), and know how rocks "work".

When I came across EX19k's post surfing the net looking for pen kits for some ancient wood that I just recently acquired. I couldn't help but jump in and throw in my 2 cents worth.

As for pens, I'm well known to make them with a very strict budget. I don't own a lathe or any turning chisels (yet). I do it all using my drill press.
Are we allowed to post up web pages here :confused: http://members.fortunecity.com/alices_workshop/pens.html

Alice

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Posting web sites that are pertaing to a subject are fine as long as they do not send spam with it. We get some people here tht post a web site and the next thing you know it you get a zillion ads to go with it.

I must say the concept of turning pens on a drill press is different but I guess if you stop and think about it it is basically like a lathe just 90 degrees different. Good job with the pens. I do have to do some. Want to see what all the clamor is about. I saw an article in a magazine about turning an aluminum pen. Now that would be cool to do Aluminum or copper maybe even brass.

Has anyone done any metal pens out there and if so can you post some photos??

[Servcman]

Woodworkers Supply had a fixture to turn pens from a drill press and also had one that you could use on a router table. So there are vaprobaly as many ways to turn them as people have ideas. Sa far as turning metal it would be the same principal as turning wood but you would need a metal lathe with a cross slide to hold the tooling. I've seen one somewhere, maybe Penn States catalog or on ebay A mini metal turning lathe but if I remember correctly I think it only had 8" between the centers and was in the $250 range. You probaly could only turn one half at a time given the clearance between the x-slide and the workhead and tailstock. I theory simple 1) turn your blank 2) mount drill chuck in tailstock and blank in workhead and drill the appropriate size center hole.
Dennis

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Dennis

The article I was reading was in the Fall 2004 edition of Woodturning Design if you get that magazine and the person used a regular wood lathe with regular mandrel. He turned a cigar pen because he said the size was appropriate. He turned his using his skew chisel. He recomended to try all tools and was even turning it with a roughing gouge. He did warn this takes time because it is slower than wood and it will dull tools faster. He also warned about the metal shavings. I thought it was a cool project because when he got done the finished project was like brushed aluminum. This is a little ways away from me trying but was interested if anyone tried it and what results were. Also maybe give us a few pointers. I figured other metals are as soft so it should be possible too.

[Servcman]

I would have to take my hat off to the person that turned using wood tools . To get a good finish on a metal surface usually takes kowing how to set your tooling at a proper angle to avoid chatter and making passes of .0010" for the final turning. I wouldn't say this is impossible to do just the practice and patience needed to turn metal with wood tools is definitley out of my league. Some of the little important details I had omitted in my last post for brevitys sake was the possible need for a coolant sump system and the price of tooling for metal working, the quality of the x-slide to be able to adjusts in the .0001" range, a good quality 0- 1" micrometer along with the learning curve to be able to properly set tooling.
I have picked up a couple of issues here and there of Woodturning Design but not that one.
Again he has steadier hands and more patience then I do.
Dennis

[Oso]

Here is a photo layout of a guy making an aluminum pen. Looks to me like he did use wood tools and lathe to make it.

http://www.thepenshop.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=872&PN=2

Very nice project.


Oso

[Servcman]

Heck of a job on that pen. Beyond my skills.
Dennis

[alice2072]

I do have something called a "vertilathe". I've had it for years but have never hooked it up to my drill press (just kept making pens the way I knew how) It was sent to me by George Devine (the creator) when he saw how I made pens. I guess he felt sorry for me. He unfortunately passed away last year.

As for aluminum pens. I'm sure I saw a web site that sold square aluminum blanks somewhere. If I remember correctly, you can use your regular turning chisels. Don't quote me on that though, I could be totally wrong. If I ever come across the site again, I'll be sure to post up the address.

[alice2072]

Well, it's not the same web site, nor is it the same item as I remember (I remember square blanks) but I did some searching and found this http://www.hutproducts.com/alum9.html

I'm still searching for those square blanks

Alice

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Alice, Oso

Thanks for the sites I am putting them in my folder. This is what I like about this site ask and you shall receive.

Dennis

I know this topic is getting hijacked and is now all over the place but if someday you can start a new posting about finishes for pens and maybe other turnings. Maybe you can share your secrets and others who turn. Maybe we can learn a little from each other. I am way to new to add to this but am sure some of my other finishing techniques may apply here too. I am so pumpe about turning but I have to learn to sharpen my tools to really get anything going. :)

[Oso]

.......... I have to learn to sharpen my tools to really get anything going. :)

I have to learn to sharpen tools myself now. I have knocked the tip off two chisels. I have never sharpened a tool, so this will be a real challenge :eek:!




Oso

[JoeScroller]

GET A JIG. Wolverine makes the best I've seen but you can make your own. The hardest are roughing gouges. I have attempted to sharpen some of these, some are easy, some are hard.

[Ex19k]

thanks for the info all...guess i will be taking the quartz and just making some nice paperwieghts out of it for now!Guess I would get into trouble for breaking things again! Again thanks for the info!