Pen finishing

[Servcman]

JT,
No real secrets here on finishing.
I usually turn to about 1/16" from the fiish size then sand starting with 400, 800 and wet sand with Hut crystal finish and a plastic type 1200 grit I found at Micheals ( I think I spelled that Right ) Craft centers then final finish with 2 more coats of Hut using adiaper to buff. The diaper I wash about 5 times over in hot water with no detergent, this I picked up from military days spit shining dress shoes in the Marines. Seems to work for the pens also. i usually wait about 15 minutes in between coats. I am experimenting with putting a paste wax finish over that and want to see if it holds out better at work with the grease and hydraulic oil residue on the hands. Will keep you posted on that as time goes on.
As far as manufacturers of pen kits http://bereahardwoods.com/ and Penn State are the 2 largest manufactures supplying about 98% of the sites. Bsicly all the kits are of compareable quality and the only thing to watch is that even tough the finished product may appear the same on the outside the internal sizing may be different so bushings may not fit for the same style pen between manufacturers. A good example of this is Berea Hardwoods Button click pen with double center ring and Penn States Slimline Pro gel writer. They have the same outside appearance but mechanicaly and internaly totaly different so the bushings can not be interchanged. I have experimented using different bushings as long as they use the same drill bit with mixed results. But then thats the fun of woodworking and creating your own projects.
sorry for being long winded on this but it could on further as there as many different ways to turn a pen as there are turners.
Dennis

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Dennis

Thanks for starting this thread and thanks for the heads up on the different sizes. Yes I have heard so many ways of finishing a pen and seems all say they eventually will fail because the oils in our hands breaks things down. I guess you are suggesting then to buy the pen parts from the same place as the mandrel and bushings if i read that right. I really like the look of the cigar pens. I am going to have to start getting some of the equipment to try some for sure.

I hope others will jump in here and give us their methods of finishing pens and what has been the results so far if you have been tracking any.

[TimD]

So far I've been finishing my pens with at least 1500 grit wet/dry sand paper; 1st time with that dry, then slightly dampening the barrels, letting them dry then another time with 1500. Then 3 or 4 coats of wax apllied with quite a bit of pressure.
There is 1 finish that I want to try: from making fishing rods for several years I've played with thread sealers and finishes on that. The Flex Coat system has my attention. That's a 2-part epoxy system that you mix and brush on. I have a rod turner that keeps the rod spinning around 7rpms's until the finish is set up, that way you don't have sags and runs on it. I'm working on a plug to go into the butt recess with a hardwood dowel mounted into that plug. Then it'll have to be sanded down a little so that the brass tubes will slide onto it. Then I can Flex Coat the pens and let them spin dry.
Since that little spinner will turn a whole fishing rod I could put several pens on it at one time. I'll need to make a center roller for support. When I get it finished and try some I'll let you guys know what I think about it. From what I've seen on the fishing rods that's some bad stuff.

[Gunny]

I start with 120 grit and work down through 2500 grit and finish up with EEE Ultra wax compound. Then depending on the wood, I use either HUT wax, Crystal Coat or one of the other friction polishes.
On some of the more porous woods where the fine grit sanding results in the pores filling up with light colored fine dust, I wipe these down with alcohol before applying the finish.

I'd like to try a spray lacquer and see how that works but so far I haven't had a chance.

I know the popular wisdom is that no matter what finish is used, the constant handling will eventually result in wearing it off but the great majority of people who carry a fine writing instrument use it primarily for signing their name. Most writing these days is done on computers or word processors and those who take a lot of notes (like journalists) prefer the 3 for a dollar type because they are constantly losing them and believe it or not, Staples says they sell more pens than they do paper. None of my own pens are old enough yet for handling to have become a problem except for the MontBlanc Meisterstuck that my wife gave me for our first anniversary, and which I use these days mostly for signing the visitor's log at wakes and funerals.

[Servcman]

The mandrels are mostly the same 7mm the only exception I found thus far is Berea Hardwoods 8mm for their larger blanks for extra stability. Other then that look at what size drill bit is needed for the kit. If it uses the same size drill between manufacturers the bushings should work between kits. If they list differerent size drill bits then the internal workings are different and will probaly not fit correctly. Another interesting thing to try is that some manufactures sell the center bands and end caps seperatly where you might be able to make a thicker pen without tapering by just changing these.
Dennis

[Bino]

Craft Supplies and Woodcraft both have nice catelogues and good pens supplies. Pennstate has terrible customer service. I have had missing peices and blanks cracked in half. The will replace but charge $8 to replace a damage tube.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bino

Welcome to the site. May I ask how you found us??? :confused: I see you have started posting and this is exactly what we want. We are a diversed group here so we like all kinds of woodworking and turning is becoming more and more popular. Just a quick note the places you mentioned are very good sourses and another very good source for pen supplies is the sponsorers of this site Steebar Corp. Just click on one of the large links on top of the page and it will get you there. Nice to have you aboard. Like to see some of your work when you get some time to post.

[William Young]

I sand every pen progressively down to 12000 (twelve thousand) Micromesh before finishing.

I think I have tried practically every type finish known. Experience has taught me that Any of the shellac based friction applied ones are quick and easy but are only a temporary finish at best and are best designed for quick sale. The finish will not last. They are actually not a finish at all. They are a polish.
Laquer is fast and requires a learning curve to apply and will last for many years of continuous use. Same durability applies to urethane finishes except it is way too time consuming waiting for coats to cure between applications for my liking. Those were my two finishes of choice before mastering CA finish application.
CA finish is one that I tried half a dozen times without success but kept coming back to try it because it is supposedly the most durable of all finishes and should last the life of the pen. Being determined I was going to master the process , I tried it a few more times and have now masterd the application . The learning curve was well worth it and it is now the only finish I use on pens. As far as the durability being the best of all of them is yet to be seen because I only masterd the tecnique a few months ago. Time will tell . I am only quoting from ones that make pens for a living and sell the ones in the hundreds of dollar range that use nothing but CA finish on their pens and have a reputation to protect when guaranteeing their finish..
CA requires three applications right on the lathe that take one minute each in rapid succession and it is finished and cured and can be taken off the lathe and assembled right away . It does not leave a deep plastic looking appearance like lacquer and urethane does. It allows the wood to show in it's natural state while at the same time imparting an excellent gloss.
W.Y.

[PaulD]

I'm also using the Woodcraft micro-mesh pads down to 12,000 grit on every pen. I wrap up with a Behlen Woodturner's Finish and finally a Carnauba wax buffing using the Beall Wood Buff system. I've had lots of sales and no returns, yet so the satisfaction level with this approach seems acceptable.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Another new member that snuck in here and am glad to see is posting. First let me say Welcome and second let me ask you a question Paul. The finish you talk of is a poly type finish am I correct??? If this is so then I can see why it will stand up better than say just a friction finish.

[PaulD]

Woodturner's finish is actually a shellac and resin based formula. You can apply multiple coats if desired for more protection. It is pretty easy stuff to work with.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Paul,

Thanks for the reply and I will say again because you backed it up. With a shellac and resin combo it is a finish that is impervious to oils from the hands that will make it stand up well. This is always the problems with lacquers. Poly sometimes make it look too plastiky ( if that is a word) That is why people like to go to CA combined with blo to give it color and not look so plastic looking. Many friction finishes are not strong enough either. Glad you found a combo that works for you.

[William Young]

Hi Paul.
I found it interesting that you said Behlens is a shellac resin based finish.
I have known for years that it is a shellac based padding finish and is nice for some bowls and things but I have not heard much at all about it' durability because of it being shellac which is not a very durable finish for pens although it looks nice.
I searched half a dozen sites and I can not find any mention of it containing resin along with the shellac . Just out of cutiosity could you supply some info where it says it is a shellac/resin finish? Resin would certainly strengthen the formula if it is indeed an ingredient in it.
I keep coming up with information like this on it without any mention of resin.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=finish-behlen-wf

W.Y.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bill~ I hope Paul does fill us in on the exact product he is using but i will say this Behlen has many different products with the Behlen name attached to it. If you go to the left side of the link you provided you will see a list of other products they make. Not sure which Paul is using.

[PaulD]

Sure, here is a link with technical info on the product I use. http://images.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000048AA.pdf

[PaulD]

Here is another link referencing resins off of Behlen's own UK site. http://www.behlen.co.uk/safety/B611-08888.pdf

[William Young]

Thanks Paul for those links.
They do prove that there is a resin content in the product which would appear as if it should be a superior product to the ones that are basically a combination shellac and BLO and certain types of waxes.
I am sold on the CA finish (for pens} at this time after a lot of experimenting with finishes but if I am ever close to a store (to save S/H) that has that Behlens finish I will probably try it just to satisfy my curiousity. After the hundreds of dollars I have spent on finishes over the years and have never tried this one , I'll try anything just to be knowledgable about it.
W.Y.

[John Charles]

If any of you are looking at Behlen's Woodturners Finish use caution and read the label........ or the Hazards Identification on their website

I recently picked some up at Grizzley on the way to work, after opening it and testing it out on a scrap piece of wood using a rag and cariously getting it all over my fingers I read the label........ d*** the stuff is poison, can cause brain damage (well no need to worry bout that) and a lot of other problems anyway the bottle is sitting out in the garage, don't worry about it freezing cause it hasn't at 12 degrees!!

Hopefully I can use it when it warms up and I have the garage open with some ventilation to get the fumes out and the fan going I can use it else it is gonna sit there! Another $20 down the tube!

John

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

John C

I see this is your very first post here so please let me extend a hearty warm welcome to our site. The people here are a bunch of friendly crazy woodworkers looking to have a good time with their toys (er tools) . You are correct about reading all labels on finishes. I know the finishing world is being reworked witth all these environmental laws but there are still ingredients in just about all finishes that are not healthy if exposed to a long time to. Work safely and enjoy the hobby. Love to see some of your work if you get a chance to post some. Again welcome aboard.

[William Young]

It has a high content of ethenol and methanol (alcohol) Approx 40% . That would account for it not freezing. Even the 40% acetate of the formula is *ethyl* acetate which leads me to believe it is ethyl (alcohol) as a carrier for a a minute amount of actual acetate so this would further show why it won't freeze.
After reading the MSDS on it I would think that adequate ventilation would be in order to help prevent

Skin contact;
Reddening and swelling, moderate to severe eye injury, tearing and reddening of eye tissue,temporary vision impairment.

Inhalation;eczema, repiratory disesases, including asthma and bronchitis , eye disease, liver disease, digestion tract disease, respiratory irritation, dizzinesss, nausea and headache.

On second thought , I don't think I will buy this product even to try it. It has similar characteristics as NC lacquer does and I quit using NC lacquer many years ago as well because it causes permanent neurological and irreversible liver disease and a host of other nasty issues similar to this Behlens product.

Take extreme care when using this type of product and be sure to use ample ventilation and no less than NIOSH approved chemical certified respiratory masks.
W.Y.

[PaulD]

I've been using the Behlens mostly because that was what Woodcraft suggested. This weekend, as an experiment, I did the full sealer, BLO/CA, Renaissance wax top-coat finish route. Observations in comparison to a coccobolla cigar pen with Behlens:

- The BLO/CA approach really didn't take much more time then the Behlens
- The BLO/CA approach is markedly shinier
- The BLO/CA approach fills in the wood pores better
- The BLO/CA approach feels better (that might also be Renaissance versus carnuaba wax differences)

Bottom line, while both approachs work, I expect to go the CA/BLO route for pens in the future and save the Behlens for other turning projects that are less hands-on then pens.

Regarding the other comments about Behlens -- I've experienced no problem at all with redness or inhalation issues. I also do use the dust collector/JDS Air-Tech air filtration and Triton Powered Respirator route which is a pretty safe way to work with about anything. If John wants to get rid of his Behlens feel free to send it my way.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I have been reading about this BLO/CA mixture for pen and bottle stopper top coating. My question is what are the steps and ratio??? How is this applied and what are the down sides??? Does this need to be buffed out on a beal buffing system later??? Can I use the Triple EEE under this because I find this really takes out all scratches and seals the wood. How is this compared to Mylands friction polish??? Has anybody tracked the wear and tear on their favorite finishes for projects that get handled as much as bottlestoppers and pens???

[William Young]

No tripple EEE required if using sandpaper steps properly and MM (micromesh) to 12000 grit.. Tripple EEE gets on the bushings and leaves a hell of a black residue on them that can get onto the wood if care is not used in removing it. One container of that stuff was enough for me.
No sealer necessary.
Myland Friction Polish is just that . . . A polish . . not a finish. Short life span but nice for taking pictures.
No power buffing required . Beal system not required.
Turners that make pens on a professional level claim the CA finish will stand up longer than any other finish and reject chemicals and acids from skin etc better than any others. The finish should last the life of the product and still look great.

Biggest problem is the learning curve to apply it and once mastered it is easy but to explain it is difficult because everyone develops their own technique.
The big turning boards like the IAP (international association of pen turners) and the Pen Shop etc . etc. have hundreds of post on it as well as several tutorials. . Some methods work for some while different ones work for others and even with all the different methods it is a case of practice, practice , practice. After about a dozen tries I almost gave up but I am glad I tried a few more times and got it to work for me every time now in about the same time as applying the temporary "polish" type applications which I refuse to call a "finish" because of the experiece I have had with most all of them.
Before mastering the CA finish I had worked my way up to WB lacquer finish which is very durable but not as easy to apply and takes longer to apply than a CA finish.
W.Y.

EDIT. I posted this originally message on Feb 18.
Just goes to show how fast things can change with pen finishing because since posting this I have tried the Plexiglass finish on a pen today for the first time (march 3) and unless it was pure luck, I believe it will now be my finish of choice.
There have been many messages on the various sites about this latest finish that some are using.
There are also messages about it right here on this site so no need to elaborate on it in this thread except to say I think with my pen finishing it is something like Emeril Legasse always says one the food channel . . . BAM ! ! when he kicks it up a notch. :D