What::: Other Than Dial-up

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I tried to download the new Woodworking Channel and it is way too slow and feel this will be a problem. So I think it mabe time to switch to a different system. I know nothing about cable or broadband or phone service so I am asking in laymans terms can we have a discussion on which is better and why?? :confused: Which is more reliable and why??? :confused: Which is cheaper and why?? :confused: What is envolved with getting what???? :confused: What do you all have and what are the costs?? :confused: Thank you all for participating in advance.

I just want to make a statement as to why I never switched in the first place. I was always told it is a safer form of security because you are not always connected to the internet when you shut the system off. This is how hackers get their stolen info. Am I being paranoid???

[pops-shop]

So many questions, so little space :rolleyes: :cool: ;) :p

There are basically two different types of broadband access: Cable or Phone

Cable - Depends on the cable service you have. Most cable services do offer broadband internet service. Sometimes you have to increase your service level to get internet. Installing a cable modem requires "cable" to be connected, power and a connection to your 'puter (either usb or network). Prices will vary. One big plus to cable is interactivity to your cable company. Another big plus is that most cable companies will provide you with virus protection and firewall (although firewalls are available from a variety of sources for free).

DSL - Been there, too. Depends on the distance to your telephone company central office. The farther you are from the central office the slower the speed. Cost depends on "bundled" services through the telephone company. Slightly more secure than cable, however, firewalls take care of that. Most require that you buy your own virus scanners. One big negative (that I found), you must install dsl filters on each and every device you have connected to your phone line.

My 2 cents - Had DSL and satellite tv - switched to cable for both tv and internet - happier.

If anyone else can shed a little more light for John, please do so - I'm not too old to learn.

Fred

[JoeScroller]

First of all, if you get DSL you can unhook it and rehook it to your computer and protect yourself that way, also, most DSL providers will give you whats called a temp. IP adress, which means, when you turn your computer on and plug the internet in it sends a signal through the DSL line that you are online and your DSL company gives you a temp. IP adress that lasts for about a day, which greatly protects you from hackers. I know that cable is faster, but it also is more expensive and requires putting a hole in your wall and running a cable cord if you don't already have one, I have had both and feel that reliability is about equal. As for DSL filters, once you plug them in you really don't notice them or need to worry about them.




p.s. when it comes to your security and safety, theres no such thing as being paranoid.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

One big negative (that I found), you must install dsl filters on each and every device you have connected to your phone line.

My computer is hooked to it's own telephone line. What does this mean in terms of phone hook ups?? I am looking for speed I guess more than anything. I noticed since I have AOL they are offering broadband with the same package but has a bunch more radio stations and things that do not interest me. From what I am gathereing I need a modem for either thing and where do I get this and can I hook all this stuff up myself or do I need a technician. The thing about aol is you have to sign on for 1 year. Need more people to weigh in here.

[GrayBeard Phil]

JT:

Lets talk about DSL.

I got DSL thru Earthlink. My main home phone line can handle Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS) plus DSL on top of it. Every phone in my home needs a filter to keep DSL "whine" off the phone. In effect the filter is a low pass filter. My DSL router is connected thru a high pass filter to the phone jack. In my neighborhood, I can connect to the local phone service Central Office at DSL speeds of 3.0 Mbs. I connect to the DSL router thru a standard Ethernet card I purchased at Best Buy.

(aside: Mbs is Mega bits per second. If the "b" is a capital, as in MBs that means Mega Bytes per second. )

The local Phone company connects my DSL to a DSL service provider. In my State, this could be either the phone company or any of a number of DSL providers. Earthlink sub-contracts this DSL service to a company called Covid, which I had never heard of before.

Note: If you now have a separate line for dial up Internet, you will no longer need the separate line.

I contracted with Earthlink to provide me with 3 Mbs service thru DSL, because my local cable company promises high speed but per my neighbors, that speed only reaches high speed during the early morning hours; I live at the 'end of the line' for cable service.

However, the sub-contractor Covid also contracts with others to provide a host of Internet services, including internet phone service and music and video streaming. (Don't ask how I know this.) There is something called QoS in Computer talk (A. K. A. Geek Speak.) QoS means there is a tag on a digital stream packet going across the Internet that identifies the type of digital data. Voice data packets have top priority, followed by streaming audio, then video and so on. Data packets for file transfer are at the bottom.

In short, while I should expect my actual performance of downloading a 500Mb file should be the equal to at least a 2.7 Mbs connection on a 3.0 Mbs service, the fact is I can never reach beyond a 1.8 Mbs connection speed due to the Sub-contractor's commitment to other services.

Believe it or not, this performance exception is spelled out in the fine print of the service contract I have with Earthlink.

I have found out it is common with DLS service contracts that the average consumer with a new DSL contract does not verify DLS internet speed. The default sub-contractor connect speed is about a 0.7 Mbs. If the consumer complains, the sub-contractor will connect them to a 1.4 Mbs service, If complain again a 2.0 Mbs service, Only on the Third complaint will they get 3.0 service. Note: this is not the local phone service, it is the DSL sub-contractor who is cheating on the service. It cost the service provider a lot more money to provide you with the service you contract for than to provide you with the service they find most profitable.

You complain thru the 'Customer Service' of who you contract the DSL service thru, which means you have to fight the language problem with the person whom you are talking too. Each complaint about slow speed may take 2 or more phone calls before you reach someone who comprehends just what you are talking about.

In short, when you get your high speed connection, you will find you are in compition wtih the Long distance IP Phone service with your neighbors and those who are downloading streamming music, radio stations, and so on for digital bandwidth.

High speed is still faster than dialup.

Phil

[Servcman]

I've had dsl and now am on cable. At the 100mbs level both were about equal and other then being unsightly on a wall phone the filters were no big deal. The dsl service I had provided 4 of them with the initial installattion package. I switched to the cable though as I now have my phone ,cable and internet service bundled through them and the cost is about $50 cheaper then going with my local phone co, dsl service, and cable being seperate. For myy area the dependability and service were equal n both forms.
The only thing I would have to warn about is for those that would be thinking about satellite internet service through their mini dish. The cost of they advertise is for just to download at the higher mbs rate to get the equipment to upload at the same rate is expensive and also you have to bring your own isp on top of the cost of access to their system.
Dennis

[workinwood]

Well,
never had dsl or sat, currently have cable and love it, actually we have our tv and phone and internet through our cable company. Like someone else stated saving is about 50 dollars or more a month. My inlaw have dsl and appear very happy with it, personal I would not leave cable nver had aproblem with it in the last three that is when we switch from dail up

[bronco]

I agree with Dave,
I use to have dial -up and switched to cable. I love it I never am knocked
off line like on dial-up and the speed is about 4 times as fast I am very
happy I switched over ,although in my area everyone I have talked to
loves dsl. So take your pick I think dsl is a little cheaper.
Bill

[pops-shop]

JT - you did not say if you had cable or not.
Speed - 3MBps is pretty standard through the phone company although, when I switched to cable they (phone company) informed me that 6Mbps was available. Was lucky to obtain advertised speed, however. Through cable, I am very close to the advertised speed.

Cable or DSL - both have pros and cons - check prices and guarantees - AOL, get over it - go with the system that gives you the best bang for your buck.

There - I've said it and I'm sticking with it........ :cool:

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Fred

I have Verizon phone service for telephone and right now my computer is on a seperate phone line. I have cable tv so either one is not a problem. As Phil mentioned about getting the high speed and not being shamed. How do I know what speed I am running at?? I understand about the time of the day because that happens no matter what but anything has to be better than what I got. For now it is ok but if I want that woodworking channel and this looks like it will be good than I need to do something. I have virus protection, spyware protection and adware protection and a firewall how is this affected with either system??? Also will this eat up more memory on me???? Memory is where I am having problems and do not need to loose more. If so I may have to upgrade again. Thanks all for the help.

[TimD]

Here in Alabama the DSL is about $80 a month so with my internet costing 16 a month w around 50 Kbps I can't see justifying a high-speed connection. There's an old saying that if the U. S. was a horse, Alabama would be the ____. I'm sure that with a little thinking you guys can fisnish that.

[GrayBeard Phil]

I am back with some more comments.

1st, security: You can always turn your computer off. With DSL, I have a web page at my external DSL modem where I can disconnect (or logout) of the DSL network. The object here is not to leave your computer exposed all the time. You must have the lastest firewall and security system. Some security software requiers Windows 2000, or Windows XP to run.

2nd, Speed test: Google for Internet Speed Test.
Here is one link: Speed test 1 (http://www.wugnet.com/myspeed/speedtest.asp)
or Speed Test 2 (http://2wire.com/) However, at this site look to the upper right hand corner and click on the small box "Speed Meter".

Some DSL external Modems (the correct term is DSL Router) have a built in web page that allows you to run a diagnostic page that tells you the local loop speed. That is you to the local phone Co. This tells you if you need to fix the wiring inside you home.

Aside: Some speed tests require you have Sun Microsystems JAVA installed. This is a free download from www.java.com. Some places want you to open a specific TCP port on your system like port 5800. Unless you know what problems you could face and how to do it, ignore these open a port sites.

BTW: I agree with what most people have said about cable high speed internet connections. I just have a very bad cable operator in my suburban city.

Phil

[Servcman]

As far as security most ISP's have their own versions of firewalls etc. FOr the most part I figure these along with windows were probaly already hacked before they hit the market due to the high general usage. I've had problems with Norton and Mc Cafee both slowing down my pc and incompatability problems with some programs.
I use Lavasofts software for antispyware and popup blocking along with Vcom System Suite Utilitie program which comes with its own firewall and antivirus engine. I visit alot of warez sites for progams and have had little trouble plus their pc utilities offer more then Norton does. the main drawback to vcom is that the cleanup utilities are so detailed you wil have to sign back in to sites that yoou have on on auto sign in after running the utility clean up.
lavasoft software can be found at cnet download site and here is the link for Vcom : http://www.v-com.com/

The system suite will clean up alot of unneeded and duplicated restrigy links that will free up virtual memory and increase the speed and reliability of the pc. And as of yet I have had no incompatability problems with it after 4 years and 3 different versions of it.
Dennis

[pops-shop]

JT

Many suggestions for ya to contimplate

My favorite speed testing sight is:
http://www.dslreports.com/tools

You will find a button about 2/3 down the page that says: SpeedTests
Or - just go to: http://www.dslreports.com/stest

Just tested mine:
Your download speed : 2726 kbps or 340.7 KB/sec.
That is 15.4% better than avg. other reports from charter.com
kbps=kilo bits per second
KB/sec. = Kilo Bytes per second
(8 bits in a byte)

Yes, I'm happy with my "slow speed" cable modem - sure beats DSL and any dial-up :D

my humble opinion of course :o

fred

[Gunny]

I started with dial-up about 21 years ago and progressed through the whole gamut of modems... (My first was a 170bps on a Commodore Vic20) but when I got up past the 14,400 it seemed my phone line couldn't deliver anything faster than 20,600bps so my 56k modem was no better than my 28,800.
Our area was always behind the times.
DSL just became available here two years ago and at the time, we were told by our cable company that 2 way Cable access was a long way off. Then out of nowhere, they announced it was available a few months later but we already had DSL.
DSL worked great... No problems the first 12 months except that I had to give up the short email address I'd had for 12 years.
Unfortunately, when there was a problem, the service was pathetic. Some smart-mouth condescending help-desk tech named Greg insisted the problem was with the computer. (I won't mention the name of the DSL provider but their initials are VERIZON)
After calling in the geek squad it turned out it was the DSL Modem.
The next day after explaining to customer service just why they were losing our business, we switched to Cable.
It was worth every penny. Significantly faster, better quality, better service and no problems that couldn't be fixed by rebooting.
Verizon called us back about a month later. It seems that young Greg's attitude had been cited by several other customers who terminated their DSL contract. They offered us 12 months free DSL if we came back but even that wasn't enough for us to give up cable...
Granted, cable is more expensive, but I work with computers all day and several days a week I work from home via laptop over that same cable connection. This is the most dependable service I've had and my cable company has a lot of built in security measures. There's no way to completely avoid ad-ware but with cable I haven't picked up even 10% of what I picked up via DSL.
I guess it all comes down to cost and what's available in your area. Is what you're getting worth what you're paying...
You may want to visit a neighbor who has cable or DSL and get a hands on demonstration. Then you'll be able to better decide if it's worth it.

[Servcman]

On the speed tests they basicly give you just a ballpark figure to go by. The processor speed, amount of ram, video card size, and the amount of backround programs running along with the condition of your files and registry also play a big part on how fast your internet connection loads.
When I first got my cable connection the pc I had at the time was bogged down waiting for the page to load through my video card on the 100mps connection. After I built this pc ( went from a 850mhz/512M ram/64m video to 3.4ghz dual processor/2 G ram/256m video ) I was then waiting for the page to load from the net. I then upgraded to the 500mps service and everything is about on par with each other now.
Dennis

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bummer

Just found out I do not have DSL in my area yet. We had fiber optics pulled about 3 years ago. Don't understand it. I live in a very populated area not that I live in the outreaches of mars. I guess I am going to have to make nice nice with the cable company now at least for a year. This will hurt. They have to be one of the biggest rip off artists on this planet. Well I will see what they have to offer and how much it is going to hurt. :(

[pops-shop]

BIG bummer - hard to believe

Yep, make nice nice for a little while - ur going to love the speed :D

[Servcman]

Depending where you live you might find that a package deal with internet and cable may be cheaper then dsl through the phone company and the cable seperate.
Dennis

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Dennis

I can not get computer hook up through the phone company but can get TV. Figure that one out. I will not try TV with my phone company that is for sure. I have no other choice at this time but to get cable TV and computer tied as a package. Hopefully they are running a deal.

[pops-shop]

JT

Did you ever check your connection speed with DSL reports or one of the others???? Just wondering.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Fred that is a good idea but do not know what I am doing. Phil said something about not downloading Java. The one test I think you have to download Java. What is that? One of the tests I can not get the movie to play. My computer is a litle bit of a mess.

[pops-shop]

Java is a small type of operating system that works with windows. Many apps use Java and you just don't know it. The Java applet from DslReports is no big thing. It's small. Go ahead - he initial file may be a little large, though. Check it out.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Fred

I do not know what I did but I downloaded the Java thing and that took a long time. I can't get any speed reading page. I don't know if I now added more stuff that is going to slow my computer down more. I tried the site Phil mentioned and got a reading of 49.20Kbps and 52.30Kbps Have no idea what any of this stuff means. I now got more bars across the top of the screen. I f I get any more bars across there I won't be able to see the messages. I need to clean this computer out big time and fix all the problems but man it would definitely take someone who knows what they are doing.

[GrayBeard Phil]

I did not intend to imply that Java from Sun Microsystems is any way bad, or undesirable, to download.

The paragraph in my above post had two very separate thoughts. Many of the Internet speed tests use special software called Java. Do not let that bother you. Go ahead and download Java. The 1st time you download and automatically install Java, it should take a while if you use dial-up connections to the Internet.

The Second thought I had in my previous post had to do with Firewall ports. This has very little to do with Java. Trust me, the whole internet Transport Control Protocol (TCP) is riddled with bad choices of words.

The following is Geek speak, you may choose to ignore it.

In this case, opening a port in TCP should be something more like 'activate warehouse roll up door.' A Data packet enters and leaves with specific instructions as to where to deliver the load or where to pick up a load. The guard at the Gate, checks to see if inbound delivery instructions match the roll up doors available to receive loads. If no match, then the delivery is refused. If the roll up door is active, the guard lets the inbound delivery continue.

Similarly with sending, if the door is not active, then there will be no loading of data onto a packet since the door is closed. The guard looking at the sending instructions, will notice any load that claims to originate from a closed rollup door, and refuse to let the outbound data packet go.

Thus, If you are asked to open Port 5800 for Internet speed testing, then any data packet, from anyone (good or bad) can send and receive data from port 5800. This may be a good thing for accurate Internet speed testing, but not so good for other reasons.

A few common ports used: Port 80 for Internet (plus others); FTP on Port 21, and Port 25 for Email. If you close port 25, the guard (your firewall) will not let any data packet to be delivered to the roll up door for Email. No Email in or out.

BTW: a speed test of 49 Kbps is very good for a dial up 56K connection. That means in effect, that every second you can transmit more than 49,000 bits (1s and Zeros) to your internet service provider. A cable modem rated at 2.0 Mbps but tested to 1.5Mbps can send 1,500,000 bits thru your cable modem Internet Service Provider. (aside: for a rounded off 'back of envelope' calculation, actual real data transmitted is about 50 to 60% of that since speed test numbers includes data packet 'header', 'CRC', plus to and from address. Thus at 49,000 bits per second only about 25,000 bits of a file is actually transmitted per second. A 100 Kb file would transmit in 4 seconds.)

Phil

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Thanks Phil and Fred

I did down load Java but do not see a test page. Fred where is that??? Boy my dial up is nothing compared to either cable or DSL. Not even in the same ballpark. Will continue to look into this.

[pops-shop]

John, you used Phil's page and got a good reading. Never mind dslreports until you get a much better speed connection.

You're running at 50,000 and I'm running 2,950,000 or there abouts :eek:
Just a slight difference (and I'm on a cable modem)
No wonder ou're having problems loading some pages.

Sorry :o ;) :rolleyes: :cool: :) :D

[JoeScroller]

It may beat DSL, however most DSL is about 2/3rds of the cost of cable. I am a DSL fan, never had a problem with it. And its fast enough for me. However, these stupid school computers are slower than most cable! it took five minutes to load a page!! :D