Variable speed problems

[bronco]

I own a delta 250 ss saw.The saw runs wide open all the time,I can turn
the var. speed knob against the stop and it will slow down to min. speed,
as soon as I release the knob it opens full throttle . I have blown out the
dust, next to tearing into it I don't know what to look at next? Thanks
for any and all replies.
Bill

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bill

It is a $90 saw so you have to ask yourself is it worth getting fixed? These do not use the more sufisticated speed sensors but probably uses a circuit board with a potentiometer.. Not sure how much you want to get into it but you can replace the potentiometer because that would be my guess to be bad because you say it will decrease in speed so the board has to be ok. Now there were the type that are just a coil of wire and a metal bar rides across it and where it stops is how much voltage is supplied to the board. Now this metal rod may have come loose. If this is the case it may only need to be rebent so that it hits the windings. Also it maybe the dial has come loose and just needs tightening and you may need to hold the back of the dial to do this so you will have to get to the back. A good way to judge this is to jiggle the dial around when you have it in the slow speed range. If it slows down then you know it is in the dial part. Another thing you can try before you take it apart is to rapidly run the dial up and down a few times thus cleaning the contact points. Now if this potentiometer is an enclosed piece then the only thing you can do is replace it. But if you are going to replace parts you will have to buy from Delta and this could wind up more than the saw is worth. I am guessing though that part is not that expensive, You can also get a variable speed foot switch and controll the speed that way but the saw must be run at full speed. In other words the foot controller can not control a half speed saw it will burn the board out.

I am sorry but this is all I have unless you contact Delta and ask for technical advice.

[bronco]

Hey JT,
Thanks for all the advice, I have had nothing but problems with this saw since I bought it. It has got me hooked on scrolling but the down time I have had lately is not worth it any more. I know you are going to enjoy reading this J.T.. I have decided to buy either a P-20 or a DW788. I have been reading some bad things about the DW788 blade holders so I am currently leaning towards the P-20. I have the same blade holders on my ss250 that are on the P-20 and I really like them. Could some of you P-20 and DW788 owners tell me where you bought your saws? What are the pros and cons for both? I have limited space in my garage so I will need to move my saw every time I saw,can I put casters on the stand and not effect vibration?I am planning on buying one or the other within the week. Thanks to all.
Bill

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bill

I am truely sorry to hear about your saw but given the fact it has given you problems it is probably wise not to throw good money after bad to fix a problem on a $90 saw. Now this brings us to the buying of a new one and you have said you have grown into the hobby and love it now. I can not tell you what saw to buy as nor can anyone else but I can give you facts and to start out with all saws and I mean this with all price ranges have their quirks and dislikes. Now it is unfortunate the Dewalt is having so many problems with the blade holders. The thing here I have heard people recently buying them and are not having the problems but with that said does this mean they fixed the problem or these people lucky to get a saw before the problem. The thing with the wedge and blade holders is new and maybe Dewalt found another company to make these parts. But the saw from Taiwain have been coming out of that plant for a few years now and there was no problems other than occasional table flatness. You can get this with the P20 also so do not think this is isolated problem. The saw is otherwise a good saw and if you could get one without th blade holder problem you would not be sorry.

Now you mention the P20. This is another good quality heavy duty saw made by Delta. You are used to the blade holders so you have that going for you. But the down side and you will have to judge for yourself if this is a down side. The speed control is done with a belt and pulley system such as on a bandsaw. Some argue you do not change speeds often enough to be a factor. Maybe yes and maybe no only you can say. Also there is an oiling issue that must be followed to maintain smoothe running. Saws like the Dewalt only require some oil on pivot points not bearings.

Another way to go is stepping up to the Delta SS350 saw which is similar to yours but uses a different speed controler and is toolless. Around $250 Also you step up to the EX21 by excalibur for around $800 and this is on the basis of the Dewalt but the big difference here is the whole motor assembly rides on a rack system for tiliting purposes as oppposed to just about all other saws tilt the table.

To me and this becomes a money issue but you have been scrolling long enough and know what to expect but to step up to a cadillac like a RBI is the way to go and you will never have to buy another saw. But you are talking $950.

You mention putting the saw on casters. Well I never suggest people doing this but there are ways around it. You can build or buy a platform that the wheels fold up when being used and fold down when wanting to move. Delta sells them. You want the saw whether it is mounted on a table or stand to be level and on solid ground preferrably a concrete floor. Carpet is not good.

Not sure if we were any help but good luck in your search for the next saw.

[bronco]

JT,
Your reply is a lot of help. I was wondering about the belt and pully system on the P-20. There is a woodcraft store in Austin,and San Antonio that have the DW788 on display that I can try out,I can ask them about the blade holder problems and the warranty.Thanks for the great advice as always.
Bill

[bmwbob]

Bill. I can recommend highly the Delta P-20.

The belt drive as a speed control is a whole lot more reliable than an electronic speed control - I have never heard of the belt breaking. I did have the speed control on a Hegner and a DeWalt go bad.

As for oiling, you have two cups that get a few drops of 20 wt motor oil every few hours and the Delta system is a lot cleaner than the system on the 1200 dollar Hegner.

The only complaint I have heard over the years on the P-20 is folks getting used to the blade clamps. But since you said you are used to them, then that wouldn't be a problem. The link to Amazon.com, has the saw for 467.99 with free shipping and a $75 off coupon.

Amazon Delta P-20 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000302TN/qid=1142367229/sr=1-19/ref=sr_1_19/102-3346585-1610539?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=hi&v=glance&n=228013)

Making the saw portalbe may be a problem since the shipping weight is 115 pounds, but there are several mobile base kits on the market that would serve you well.

Keep in mind that Delta calls this an 'Industrial' saw.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bill

I think Bob answered your question and being he has one would be more qualified to answer them. Yes you are already familar with the blade holder system which I never could learn to like and the most outstanding question is how often do you change speeds. I know when I was buying my mini lathe people told me I would not need speed control so buy the one without well I tell all those people bunk because it was the best thing I did. I use it everytime I use the lathe. Now I know myself I rarely change speeds with the scroll saw and run mine about 3/4 speed all the time. I slow things down when use jewelers blades or cutting plexiglass. So not sure if that is an issue. Like I said good luck with whatever saw you choose.

[bronco]

JT and Bob ,
Thank you both for your input, obviously you both know quite a bit about your saws and I took both into consideration while selecting a saw. I have decided and ordered the Delta P-20. There were several reasons the most obvious was all the problems associated with the DW788 and Bob's explanation on the workings of the Delta belt drive system and the fact I am comfortable with the quick set blade clamps. Bob thanks for that link to Amazon with the free shipping and the $75 off I got the saw and stand for $392. I will receive it in about 10 working days,which is ok since we are starting a 12 day shutdown at work Friday.Thanks again.
Bill

[bmwbob]

Bill. Get the UPS guy to put the box on a table - WorkMate - for you. That box is HEAVY.

I have collected some emails over the years I could send you. Bill young over at
Scrollinfriends (http://wmyoung.proboards23.com/index.cgi?action=login2)

uses a P-20 and he is a huge source of information on using the P-20.

Let us know how you make out.

[bronco]

Bob,
great idea I hope I am there when ups drops off my saw.
Those e-mails would be great,thanks.

I agree that Bill Y. is a good source for scrolling and using the P-20. I know
I will need some advice when my saw comes and whatever problems should come up(hopefully not too many).
Thanks,
Bill

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bill

Good luck with your new saw and wish you many many years of enjoyment with it. When you get things set up and start cranking out the projects don't forget to post some here and maybe set up a gallery so we can check out your work. :)

[pops-shop]

Bronco
Keep us updated on your new saw. :)

[William Young]

Bill ;
I feel certain you have made the right decision. I would not trade mine for any other saw on the market at any price because it has features that you won't find on any of the so called top line ones and it is the last saw you will ever need. Someone mentioned you need to oil the bearings. That is totally false. The bearings are lifetime sealed. You only put a little oil in the oil cups for the pivot of the arms about every 25 hours of use. You will see that in the manual that comes with the saw.
You sure got a great price on it. You got in just at the tail end of that sale with the $75.00 off and free shipping.
You got it for half of what I paid for mine.
That sure was a good discussion on my Woodworking Friends site about this . Some would not see it if they are not registerd in. I have a secure site that requires a one time registration that takes a couple minutes to process.
Will be looking forward to some great work coming off of that saw.
You might need help getting it onto the base . It is a real gut stretcher for weight. The saw and stand will all come in one box and the saw is completely assembeled but the heavy duty adjustable stand with top plus lower shelf has to be bolted together. I lifted mine onto the stand myself but I am strong. (but then smell's not everything :D ).
Good luck and I know you will be eagerly waiting for the delivery truck
W.Y.

[bronco]

J.T., Popsand Bill,
Thanks for all the kind and helpful comments,I am really lookingforeward to getting my 1st good saw. I am tracking it and it was shipped yesterday so maybe I'll be getting it by monday. I have posted a couple of pictures in the members gallary if anyone is intrested.I will keepyou updated.
Bill

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Bill

I checked your photos you posted and have to say nicely done. Nice clean cutting and straight lines. Keep it up and am sure with this new saw you will be able to do bigger things and it will be a pleasure. I wish you many years of good service from your new saw.

[bronco]

Thanks for the kind comments J.T.
Bill

[ctrotter]

My comment is a bit late, Bronco. The major problem with a pot, of any kind , is contamination of the resistive surface. Air pressure might help, but a flush with a motor , contact or tuner cleaner might be helpful. Blow the component dry with compressed air or a hair dryer. Works most of the time for me.This works on switches, etc. I know you made the leap for a new saw, but you might be able to unload that broken one easier.

[bronco]

ctrotter,
Thanks for the tip I'll try that before just junking it.
Bill

[ctrotter]

I've been using a B&D , 9" band saw for about 12 years. Not heavy...Now and then. I began having troubles getting it to start. Thought it was a dirty commutator. Found cold-soldered connection and commutator was a disastor. Still, no start. Went into speed control. Didn't act right. Could not find circuit board for B&D. Looks like Delta bought 9 inch line from B&D. No speed control. Ordered Delta for $99 -- delivered. Strongly believe it's the same unit...Less the speed control. Will use B&D for spares, if I'm correct. 3,000 seems a bit fast for cutting hard wood, but will see what happens.

[GhstWW]

HI Bronco, One of My Scroll saws does this, the control knob actually turns from Hi to low by its self when running, I just use masking tape and tape the crazy knob at the speed I want.

but since yours does the oposite ever think about getting a variable foot peddle? to control the speed?

Just a thought, Peace everyone!


Ghstww


bronco
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 64

Variable speed problems

[bronco]

GHSTww,
I have long gotten rid of that saw and bought a Delta P-20, the belt drive is far superior to any var. speed.
Bill

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Just a note to GHSTWW~ I read your reply about a variable speed foot switch on a scroll saw. Do not use a variable speed foot switch on a variable speed saw for it will burn out the controller on the saw. Even if you open it up wide open. Just thought I would pass that on in case anyone else has that idea too.

Bill

Being you have the P20 do you find yourself changing speeds much??? I think that is why most people that buy that saw, do not change speeds alot anyway. I know my speed changing comes when I scroll plastics or metals and if I am doing real intricate work I want to slow them down.

[William Young]

I can't imagine anyone needing more that 6 speeds even though the P-20 can be cross pulleyed for about 40 speeds..
Mine is on the 1400 speed for about 95% of my sawing. The rest is if I am doing something extremely delicate where a slower speed 'might' be required.
I know people with VS saws that run them wide open on high speed for everything . So they paid for a VS controller that they don't use. VS is however, a nice selling feature for the brands that use it as a sales pitch.
W.Y.

[bronco]

J.T.,
I have not changed my saw speed since I bought the saw. I run my saw speed @ 1400rpm's. I agree with William, I would only need to change my saw speed if cutting delicate fretwork or attempting tight radius turns. In order to change speeds one only needs to roll the belt on the pully to what speed is desired which only takes a few seconds. The only disadvantage would be on a var. speed you can keep the saw running and change speeds on the P-20 you have to turn the saw off,this is not a real inconvience to me since it only takes out @30 seconds to continue sawing after changing speeds.
Bill

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Thanks Bill and Bill. It does come down to a matter of choice. But to say one buys a scrollsaw with variable speed is wasting money is not true at all. Variable speed is just about on any saw you buy today. The Delta P20 is the only saw I know that still use the belt. Here is a picture of a saw that probably was the forerunner of the P20. It was the Delta 440. I bet there is no vibration on that saw and no front to back motion on the blade.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/2123-A.jpg

[TIMBERTODD]

JT,
I just came across a scroll saw like the one you pictured for $250.00. It looks too heavy to vibrate.
TIMBERTODD