Polymer Clay Pens

[dodgeman5]

In a pen crafting book I saw a story on using polymer clay for pen bodies. The baking instructions were inaccurate and I could not get the clay to harden for turning. Has anyone tried this alternative to wood? If so, how is it done? The book had some really pretty pens.

[green-eyes]

What book was it in? I would love to check it out.


Becky

[dougle40]

I've seen this article myself and I , personally , would go by the instructions on the clay package because individule manufacturers may require different times and temps for their product .
I haven't tried one yet due to the cost of the material , it ends up costing much more than buying a "fancy" pen blank .

[lebb]

Yes, you definitely need to go by the clay instructions. I would recommend a high-quality clay such as Sculpey Premo or Fimo, since lesser clays like Sculpey III are too brittle and fragile when baked. I've never tried turning the clay after baking, although it seems like it should work fine. Personally I just mold the clay directly onto the brass tubes of a pen kit, then sand with a very fine grit (600-2000) after curing. I'm not sure how it compares in price to "fancy" pen blanks, but aside from the pen kit itself, the clay should probably cost less than $1.00 US.

[WoodAllCrafts]

I have not even stated yet with turning pens, but I am experienced in working with clay. Try using stoneware clay (about $ 20.00 per 50 lbs.) and let it dry to leather hardness. Then try turning it. I think that would be very interesting. And by the way, how do I make my own posting? Would someone please help. Thank you.

[WoodAllCrafts]

I have recently decided to start turning pens but I have not yet started. I have plenty of trees in my yard that was downed from hurricane Katrina. Could pens be turned from cedar, cypris, or white oak? Any info would be great. Thanks

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Wow, Wow, Wow,

First where do I start? I see you are a new poster so let me welcome you to the site and I also see by your address of Mississippi and your posting you have made it through the worst nightmare imaginable. I hope all your family and friends and neighbors have made it out well as can be. I am sure you have stories to tell. I can only wish you and your family my heart felt prayers well wishes. I am hoping I am reading your question right and you only had superficial damage to your property. I can not answer your turning questions as of right now I am not a turner but hope to be in the future. I am sure people will be answering this question for you.

What I can answer is your question about starting a new topic. When you click on the forum such as this at the top of the page there is a button that says New Thread, click on it and then type in the title of your topic and scroll down to type your responce. Then click submit and it is good to go. Hope this helps and look forward to more of your comments.

[PaulD]

This is a bit late on this thread, but I have made a couple pens from FIMO clay and they turn fine after baking as long as you have a gentle touch with a skew. If you over cook the clay it can get a bit brittle, but follow the instructions exactly and you should be fine.

[Gunny]

I have recently decided to start turning pens but I have not yet started. I have plenty of trees in my yard that was downed from hurricane Katrina. Could pens be turned from cedar, cypris, or white oak? Any info would be great. Thanks
Don't know about Cypress although I've seen some beautiful bowls made from it. All the books I've read say cedar is a lousy wood for turning... I don't know what kind of pens it will make but my experience is it turns like butter and polishes like rosewood. And it makes the shop smell great... so ignore the books on cedar.
White Oak turns well but it's a bit boring for pens until you color it to bring out the grain.
And welcome aboard...

[PaulD]

Back to polymer clay...

I made my first new polymer clay pen this afternoon since before Christmas. Its the first time I've done one using CA clue finish. I've got a picture pending approval for posting in the gallery (PaulD) right now. This particular pen is fully made out of various FIMO clays using pasta machine prep, simple cane technique, baking, cooling, cutting and drilling as with a piece of wood, inserting brass tubes and squaring the blank, normal turning techniques using roughing gouges and a skew. Hopefully it will be approved for viewing in another day or so.

I made up a couple other canes this afternoon, including an approach which I refer to as Emerging Painted Mokume Gane. As with most turning projects, time will tell if the canes turn out as I hope, so keep posted as I work with them using the integrated pen finishing and polymer bead making techniques.

[PaulD]

I see all of last weekend's polymer clay pen projects are on-line now. All of these are turned using conventional turning tools and finishing techniques. I've tried the polymer clay beading approach involving thin layers of clay applied directly to the brass barrel of the pen, but am much happier with results I get from the way I am integrating millifiore and mokume gane techniques into a large cane approach. If I get the chance I'll try to do some new pens involving skinner blend and true millifiore techniques so the rest of you get a chance to see these applied to the pen turning world.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Paul

You seem to be in a phase of this clay turning and I know myself not knowing anything about it as far as the materials used and how you go about preparing blanks. But thought maybe you can give us a little tutorial or description of what you are doing. You have used words I have never seen before so do not know what they mean as far as design goes. You also mentioned using it to make canes. Again maybe you can explain a little. Also again we are unfortunate to be unabvle to load pictures in this forum so if you could take this to another pen turning forum or the general turning forum and posts some photos within your message to help illustrate what you are talking about. It looks like a very interesting concept and you do not hear much about it. Thanks and am sure others will find it interesting and hope join in on the topic.

[PaulD]

John, the postings are right here at: http://www.woodworkingcrafts.com/info/photo/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/1666 Or the PaulD section of the photo gallery link at the top of this screen. This is the same place you have commented on the pens I made while ago involving spiraling techniques. I really could have gone with the polymer clay or the cedar turning discussion in this particular thread as, judging from my pictures in the before mentioned gallery, I've also been working with cedar a lot lately as well. I realize the terms are Greek to most woodturners, but they are decidely not Greek to people that work with Polymer. As I post additional efforts, I'll try to explain a bit about what I am doing. Initial primer:

Mokume Gane is a technique that involves rolling out and stacking polymer clay. The clays I am mostly working with are Sculpey or Premo brands available from Michaels or Hobby Depot. You work primarily with translucent clays and can dye and interleaf them with colors or metal leaf as you wish. In this case I am making various colors with translucent clays and instead of metal leaf interlacing, I am actually painting the top of some layers with acrylic metallic paints. In traditional mokume gane techniques, you stack the layers and then make hills or valleys with various objects and then shave off thin layers that have a sedimentary layered look. Rather then applying the thin layers to the brass barrel, I am making balls or cubes and rolling it with other opaque clays to make a 5" cane approximately 3/4" in diameter. This cane is then baked for 90 minutes, cooled and then formed as if it were a pen blank made of wood.

The clay turns similarly to acetate blanks, but is a bit more prone to catching and fragmenting off of the brass tube. Working with clay takes longer then wood. In another thread in this particular penmaking forum we discuss pen making times. With clay, excluding the baking time, count on 2-3 hours from start to finish with each pen. Clay is not inexpensive, count on using about a block and a half of clay at $2.29-$2.79 per block unless on sale. However, the end result pen is truly one of a kind and I am able to customize the pen colors and blending to order to a certain extent.

[PaulD]

Primer, continued:

Today I posted a bunch of canes to give you a feel for the raw clay after mixing and baking. If you look closely at some of the canes, you will see brownish tinting from over heating. A browned cane is not recoverable when it overheats as the brown permiates through the cane. Different brands of clay cook faster then others and the best instructions are to watch closely after 20 minutes and let your nose and eye be the judge. If you smell toasted polymer, stop cooking immediately.

I also posted a marbled pen with a twist. Marbling is done my making rolled canes of multiple colors (three in this case) and rolling them into one combined tube, keeping the separate colors in a straight line. Then fold the cane in half and roll it together into a straight lined color tube again and repleating the folding and rolling until you get the desired thickness of color lines. In this case at that point, I gave it a twist to the look you see and then shaped it and rolled it to a 5" long cane. From there it is a matter of shaping and turning as described yesterday.

Another learning, I attempted to make a couple of pens using a skinner blend. A skinner blend is a technique used to produce a graduation of colors from one to another in gradual shades. The learning is not to mix Skulpey
and Premo clays in a single blend, no matter how nice the look in the raw clay process. The two clays turn differently and try though I may, I could not avoid fracturing or chipping it irrecoverably. Different clays manufacturers are used in the other pens posted today, so apparently the problem noted is less of a problem with the types of clays are in smaller portions when exposed to turning.

[PaulD]

A couple other comments. Both the camoflaged pen and the marbled pen were made to order. My son asked for a pen that fit the camoflage mode and my daughter specified the marbled colors, pen style and marking down to the detail. This is a good example of the flexibility and control polymer can give you.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Paul

I do thank you for posting your procedure and posting of the pictures. It sure does look different from the raw stage to finished product. I am still having a hard time following all these new terms. But I was never that swift anyways :) I am just picturing a pen that is fragile to handle and afraid it will crack if dropped. Is that not the case??? What hardness can you compare it with???

[PaulD]

Polymer clay hardened is a plastic, not a ceramic or terra cotta. It take an impact just fine, but it can leave a minor dent. If you really smack a pen, I suspect you could snap the clay off of the brass barrel, but it would take a pretty good whack or defective glue job.

Some of the terms I have used really go beyond the scope of what I am trying to accomplish with my primers. There are on-line resources and instructional books that can do a far better job then I of explaining the fine points of Skinner blending or mokume gane. I'm just trying to bridge the gap between those materials and how they can be applied in the turning world.

[RollaJohn]

You are doing a mighty fine job of imparting information about a material and procedure I knew nothing about. Can't go looking for information if I don't even know to look for it.

I have worked with Sculpey a couple of times several years ago but never thought of it as a medium for turning.

Thanks for jump starting my brain, I needed that :) :)

[PaulD]

Thanks for the encouragement. I've benefitted a great deal from what Don Ward, Janet Smith, JT, Bill Young and others have shared in the various on-line forums and am happy to do the same where I can.

Separately, I learned since I started the polymer exploration that a lot of people are totally unfamiliar with Sculpey, Premo or polymer clay in general. To help, I am posting a picture of the raw materials with finished pens so everyone has a better context from which to understand what I am trying to share. This picture will probably get approved for posting in the gallery tomorrow.

[PaulD]

I have referenced a technique called Skinner blend before in these postings. Last night I uploaded a picture of the technique which our forum host Has already approved for viewing. Skinner blend is a technique involving a pasta machine and rolling out and repeatedly folding and running the clay through the machine to mix the colors. The example posted involved three colors -- atomic orange, purple and white. The white is not visible, but served to soften the transitional area between the orange and the purple. I have used all of the same clay types, Skulpey in this case, on this pen and it did turn a lot better then my previous attempts at a Skinner blend pen.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Paul

Once again thanks for sharing. From the photo and maybe just the background but it looks like an acrylic or PR pen. Do you think this clay stuff would make a good bottlestopper material???? What type finish do you use??? What type finish is not good to use???

[PaulD]

JT, I'm finishing the polymer pens just the same as a regular acrylic pen, with CA, Hut and Renaissance wax. I've done a little shaping with polymer, but nothing bigger then a pen so far. A stopper will probably work, but I haven't tried any thing that thick yet. The only real wild card I can see, is that with the clay so thick there is an excellent chance that the outside will burn with the inside still crumbly. However, its worth a shot.

[PaulD]

I posted the last example I wanted to include in my polymer clay primer. The example submitted, which will probably be posted for viewing tomorrow, is a Skinner blend polymer clay with millifiore cane inserts. Millifiore is basically a bunch of small multi-colored polymer clay canes assembled like a puzzle to form a flower or other design. I assembled this particular pen a different way from the other ones I have posted. The one tonight is a thin layer of clay with the millifiore inserts cut in to the thin layer, then rolled flat and wrapped around a glue covered brass pen insert. The wrapped insert is then smoothed out and then baked normally. When cool, the clay wrapped insert is put on the lathe and shaped and sanded like any other pen. I probably won't be posted anymore polymer photos for a while -- other then something really neat -- as I have now posted all of the concepts I discussed in the primer. Hope you all found it of value.

[RollaJohn]

Paul:

Very nice!!

Without your explanation of the procedure, I would be hard pressed to figure out how it was accomplished. The Skinner blend clay with the Millifiore cane inserts will never rub off with extreme wear and tare, and could always be refinished if needed to return the pen to like new condition. Very good job!

I do like the looks of the pen examples you have posted in the gallery. :) . With your explanations and photos you have accomplished your task of educating us to a new method of producing a material to turn.

Congratulations on a job well done.

[PaulD]

I've posted three new pens tonight that will probably be approved for viewing tomorrow. This are euro pens made of multiple layers of clay, some layers coated with inks and some with gold leaf. The layers are stacked and treated with a mokume gane technique and then applied to the barrels of the pens, baked and finished. I am using my normal polymer finish here of multiple coats of CA, Hut Plastic Polish and Renaissance Wax. I also micro mesh periodically between the various layers.

I turned some Yellowheart and Peruvian Walnut pens last week for old times sake. They were nice, but I didn't do a photo shoot since they really didn't present anything new in this forum. I also invested in the makings for some of the micro birdhouses, but didn't get to them this weekend. I think J.T. has done some work with these. If I get to them over the next week I'll try to post them.

[RollaJohn]

Paul

Very attractive pens. Did you you use full sheets of the gold leaf or small bits scattered across a layer to achieve the effect? They make me think of turned opal.

[PaulD]

Thanks Rolla. These pens are made up of six sheets of translucent clay. I color the tops of three with various colors of ink and the other three with whole sheets of gold that cover the entire 3x3 sheet of clay. From there it is mokume gane-away! In the mokume gane process the gold sheets do get sliced and broken up substantially, but the starting point is a whole sheet.

[PaulD]

Back in my May 6 message I promised a new birdhouse effort. I finally got around to making one and posting it tonight. The picture should be approved for viewing tomorrow. These little bird houses, as J.T. could testify from his past efforts, take a lot more time then you would think. I've never tried to sell one and have no sense of what a going market rate would be. I'd appreciate an experienced sense of what these things normally sell for. Thanks in advance for your experience and observations about these abodes.

[PaulD]

I'm posting one new picture and upgrading several polymer pen pictures tonight. This will probably be approved for viewing tomorrow. The polymer pen pictures that were previously posted were small which did not allow detailed examination. This has now been remedied.

The other picture is two new efforts from today. A Lilac CEO pen and an Olivewood Cigar pen. I've added some wire burning detail to the CEO pen with three different diameters of wire for interest. See, I still do wood without painting on it sometimes!

[PaulD]

Never thought of that problem. There is probably no way around that. I'll pull that message and the one regarding painted pens so others don't have the problem you experienced.

[RollaJohn]

Paul, I logged on to my Yahoo account and also registered with the Polymer Clay People Group, I don't know if that was necessary but I did it anyway. When I clicked on your link it placed me at your album. So it works if you meet their requirements for viewing.

[PaulD]

Rolla, thanks for going through that to see my work. I deleted the links because that was a lot more then I intended people to have to go through to see the polymer clay and painted stuff all together.

[William Young]

I also registerd in there to learn more about painting.
Could you please reinstate the link here to your pictures there or or let me know how to get to them in that site.
There sure is some beautiful painting in that site.
W.Y.

[PaulD]

Okay, now that everyone is properly warned about having to register and login first!

Here is the painting link. This one also has my non-wood painting that hasn't been seen on these woodworking forums before.

http://tinyurl.com/24pxgb

And here is the polymer clay link. I do think all of this stuff has been seen in these forums before as all of it involves lathe work to produce.

http://tinyurl.com/2bk4qr

[William Young]

Thanks Paul.
Wonderful painting shown there. I don't know how you can do such fine and accurate painting as that. .
The first link shows the pictures.
The second link goes to a non members page that requires registration.
W.Y.

[PaulD]

Thanks for the comments W.Y. I think I'll just leave the links as is with the warning you have noted. I have no control over how the two forum galleries are set-up and it is really nicer having the painting one available as the clay stuff is already in the PaulD gallery in this website.